Where in the hell does that statement mean that? UN divided the country into Israel and Palestine. The Palestinian part is occupied by Israel. I dont think any country except Israel disagrees with that.
Stop attacking anyone saying anything about Israel occupation equating to anti-semite or Israeli existing, etc.. That has been used for generations by right wing part of the Israelis and the US lobbying.
Stop attacking anyone saying anything about Israel occupation equating to anti-semite or Israeli existing, etc.. That has been used for generations by right wing part of the Israelis and the US lobbying.
First of all, I hate Hamas because they are Islamic fundamentalist group. And I am pretty sure you and I agree on Islamists and anything that has to do with with it. Hamas are the result of conflict and more fundamentalist groups keep getting created the longer it goes.
Yes, pre-1967 yes. Abbas and all Arab countries, I am pretty sure will sign to it today if it was on the table. Israel does not agree to that.
Here is a good question:
I dont disagree Israel has the right to protect itself. But not the way they go on killing civilians and building settlements and not wanting to make peace when quiet period. Last 2 years were a good example. Obama tried hard to bring them to the table, Abbas was ready, but they kept on announcing settlements and destroying opportunities. Then attacking Obama and trying to embarrass him for being anti-semite and anti-Israel for pressuring them to stop building settlements and come to the negotiating table.
So,
1) Israel has the right to protect itself. Even when killing children on the other site and as many civilians as it wants.
2) Builds settlements.
3) Internationally continues to occupy.
What are the rights of the Palestinians. How are they suppose to protect themselves? What are the rights of the occupiers when they fight against the occupiers?
Yes, pre-1967 yes. Abbas and all Arab countries, I am pretty sure will sign to it today if it was on the table. Israel does not agree to that.
Here is a good question:
I dont disagree Israel has the right to protect itself. But not the way they go on killing civilians and building settlements and not wanting to make peace when quiet period. Last 2 years were a good example. Obama tried hard to bring them to the table, Abbas was ready, but they kept on announcing settlements and destroying opportunities. Then attacking Obama and trying to embarrass him for being anti-semite and anti-Israel for pressuring them to stop building settlements and come to the negotiating table.
So,
1) Israel has the right to protect itself. Even when killing children on the other site and as many civilians as it wants.
2) Builds settlements.
3) Internationally continues to occupy.
What are the rights of the Palestinians. How are they suppose to protect themselves? What are the rights of the occupiers when they fight against the occupiers?
Dear Lord ... I am as much a Bahai as you or Kaz are muslims so lets get that straight. Brining a Bahai thing into this discussion was a cheap tactic by our friend Kaz to question my statements and make it sound like I have a prejudice in this conflict.
Let me assure you that no Bahai person would want to see innocent people being killed just because they are muslims. If anything, because they were prosecuted themselves, they understand the situation better.
Hope that clears this matter for you. Now, as far my stand and my views on this conflict, I see no reason to repeat myself here since I have stated all of them very clearly in this thread.
Let me assure you that no Bahai person would want to see innocent people being killed just because they are muslims. If anything, because they were prosecuted themselves, they understand the situation better.
Hope that clears this matter for you. Now, as far my stand and my views on this conflict, I see no reason to repeat myself here since I have stated all of them very clearly in this thread.
What are you talking about?
This is not a point of discussion. This has already been decided by courts of law. Israel are illegally occupying the Palestinians. If you don't even know this much, kindly refrain from posting anything so as not to make anyone else any dumber for having to read your misinformation.
Er what? Human rights exist. Strike 2.
Hamas wants Palestine to have their own state. Something they have a right to under international law.
Strike 3. Hamas in the past may have been against it, not today.
Your aside about Abbas is irrelevant. While all the ME countries may not agree with Israel's existence, they accept it as an unchangeable fact. There have already been discussions in the recent past with Hamas on map boundaries directly indicating this, if nothing else (and there's plenty else).
The only reason I asked is because I wanted to be sure as I had seen shahin mention bahai's before. It's from his own posting that I think he has trouble being equitable when Muslims are in the discussion. Just like it is clear that when it comes to any discussion, you're parroting whatever the GOP's positions are. You're kidding yourself if you think people can't see it.
This is not a point of discussion. This has already been decided by courts of law. Israel are illegally occupying the Palestinians. If you don't even know this much, kindly refrain from posting anything so as not to make anyone else any dumber for having to read your misinformation.
Er what? Human rights exist. Strike 2.
Hamas wants Palestine to have their own state. Something they have a right to under international law.
Strike 3. Hamas in the past may have been against it, not today.
Your aside about Abbas is irrelevant. While all the ME countries may not agree with Israel's existence, they accept it as an unchangeable fact. There have already been discussions in the recent past with Hamas on map boundaries directly indicating this, if nothing else (and there's plenty else).
The only reason I asked is because I wanted to be sure as I had seen shahin mention bahai's before. It's from his own posting that I think he has trouble being equitable when Muslims are in the discussion. Just like it is clear that when it comes to any discussion, you're parroting whatever the GOP's positions are. You're kidding yourself if you think people can't see it.
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As long as Israel controls things like Gaza's electromagnetic space, airspace, naval space and population registry they are deemed to occupy Gaza. Moreover, as long as the Gaza strip is a non-sovereign area (meaning a sovereign Palestine doesn't control it) it is still considered to be occupied. I've read the United States itself considers Gaza occupied.
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Thank you Shahinc for explaining. I will just add the Jews were badly prosecuted by the Nazi and put into the concentration camp and came back and did it to the Palastinians. Which is shocking.
Islamic republic had people were prosecuted and tortured in prison during Shah and came back and did the same torturing opposition after they took over.
Islamic republic had people were prosecuted and tortured in prison during Shah and came back and did the same torturing opposition after they took over.
Gaza has bee under seige for 7 years. Those tunnels have been the main source of exchanging merchandise between Egypt and Gaza. If you did not know, the seige has been so tight not even allowing needed medical stuff at times, that many even Israeli intellectuals have called it open prison. Please go read or talk to people who know about it. Or read Israelis writings in their newspaper. You cant just come back 7 years after and say oh, how come they are throwing missile. Even US and and UN and others are saying there has to be relief for the Palastinians so that they dont go so desparate thinking dying is better than living in Gaza. That is how bad the situation has been there.
Of course, just like anything else, there will always be people using it for brining weapon.
But when you think about it, you say Israel has the right to defend themselves. They spend billions on getting the best weapons, etc. Gaza under occupation, why do you think it is crazy that there are groups who try to get weapons to defend themselves?
2) Go read about how the PA and Hamas agreement was the best thing for peace. Hamas had become weak and PA was taking over. The peace would empower PA. That is one of the reason Israel went crazy and created the situation to attack. The threat of a Palestinian unity that would have forced Israelis to the negotiation table and having to give lands back was too much for Netanyah and other right wings.
How does Israel silent the missiles? 1) stop settlements, go to negotiation table. genuinely try to make peace and give lands back so state of Palastine can come back to existence. 2) dont occupy a country, make life miserable for them, dont humiliate the people, dont kill the youth, dont put so many of their people in prison, and dont keep on massacring them. Stop building settlements and keep an area under seige in horrible conditions and then come crying victim, we are victims while having abused, take their lands away, and killed them during last several year.
Of course, just like anything else, there will always be people using it for brining weapon.
But when you think about it, you say Israel has the right to defend themselves. They spend billions on getting the best weapons, etc. Gaza under occupation, why do you think it is crazy that there are groups who try to get weapons to defend themselves?
2) Go read about how the PA and Hamas agreement was the best thing for peace. Hamas had become weak and PA was taking over. The peace would empower PA. That is one of the reason Israel went crazy and created the situation to attack. The threat of a Palestinian unity that would have forced Israelis to the negotiation table and having to give lands back was too much for Netanyah and other right wings.
How does Israel silent the missiles? 1) stop settlements, go to negotiation table. genuinely try to make peace and give lands back so state of Palastine can come back to existence. 2) dont occupy a country, make life miserable for them, dont humiliate the people, dont kill the youth, dont put so many of their people in prison, and dont keep on massacring them. Stop building settlements and keep an area under seige in horrible conditions and then come crying victim, we are victims while having abused, take their lands away, and killed them during last several year.
Fine, in that case Israel should not give back an inch more because whatever she does doesn't count. Allow me to change my mind. Gaza IS occupied. It is occupied by a bunch of cut throats who push their own allies off rooftops. And don't throw around "international law". If there was international law you would not have Castro in Cuba, akhoonds in Iran, Russians in Ukraine and Hamas in Gaza. Don't whitewash Hamas either. Their charter includes destruction of Israel. When did they chafe that? What they say on CNN doesn't matter.
I love how Israel the occupier (with nuclear bomb, F16, M6 and a super strong military) cries victim against rock throwers for decades. While building settlements and taking their lands away.
Then decades go by and they make toy missile, and Israel comes back and says, see told you and go back on massacring.
The only thing that has never changed for decades is the occupier and the occupied.
Then decades go by and they make toy missile, and Israel comes back and says, see told you and go back on massacring.
The only thing that has never changed for decades is the occupier and the occupied.
You stop them by blowing them out of the sky. All the other gobbldegook you mentioned has not worked and will never work. Hamas consider all of Israel as occupied territory. They are not interested in YOUR definition. And those tunnels. You purposely make no distinction between the tunnels into Egypt and those dug solely for raiding Israeli border towns. Those tunnels are not built to ship fruits and vegetable to Israel.
You claim you are not a Hamas supporter. OK, come out here and state you approve of Israel blowing up tunnels under their territory.
You claim you are not a Hamas supporter. OK, come out here and state you approve of Israel blowing up tunnels under their territory.
So, they take over the lands determined as the Palastinian lands by the International community, and they ethnic cleanse and push into a small pocket called Gaza and then make it a prison by putting a seige around then and making it an open prison. And that to you is giving lands back? Hopefully, if it happens to Iran, you would not think the same.
When jews were being prosecuted, there were many Nazi sympathizers just like you running around and justifying the actions. They took the side of the injustice. And you are no different doing the same. Every occupier in the history has always had their good reasons to take over. And while killing, putting good public relations. And they have always been people like you who bought what they were told by the occupiers allowing massacres. Think about it.
Get Israel to stop building settlements and come to negotiate for peace and giving the occupied lands designated by UN back. That is the only way. Taking lands away and then screaming foul and killing the people who fight back is what you are doing.
Thakfully, your thinking is shared only by small percentage of the world. Especially outside of the US who they have not been brainwashed by the media.
When jews were being prosecuted, there were many Nazi sympathizers just like you running around and justifying the actions. They took the side of the injustice. And you are no different doing the same. Every occupier in the history has always had their good reasons to take over. And while killing, putting good public relations. And they have always been people like you who bought what they were told by the occupiers allowing massacres. Think about it.
Get Israel to stop building settlements and come to negotiate for peace and giving the occupied lands designated by UN back. That is the only way. Taking lands away and then screaming foul and killing the people who fight back is what you are doing.
Thakfully, your thinking is shared only by small percentage of the world. Especially outside of the US who they have not been brainwashed by the media.
Unfortunately, you are too brainwashed by Fox and Israel lobbying pro Israel media. Your thinking and that of Netanyhu is horrible for the state of Israel. You just have to look at the world support. Just like Apartheid, Israel is getting more isolated and now has only part of US as ally, and it is not a good way to go. Pressure will mount. You can't occupy lands and then come up with all kinds of stories to justify your actions. You can fool yourself.
Listen to Israeli non right wing and what they say. You are more right wing than Netanyahu and Sharon. I suggest you join IDF so you can go on killing children youself.
Listen to Israeli non right wing and what they say. You are more right wing than Netanyahu and Sharon. I suggest you join IDF so you can go on killing children youself.
If the rest of the world, and UN, and many in US tells you differently than comment below, perhaps, you, who has been isolated and getting all your news from the occupier and their supporting Fox News would think twice about it. But unfortunately, you go on just blindly taking what they tell you.
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This is the kind of immature reaction you'd expect from someone who looks at this tragedy in terms of a game. If you are occupying and harassing a people, you can't turn around and feign victimhood. The only way Gaza will be unoccupied is when Israel completely leave it and let the Palestinians do whatever they want as an independent state.
At best, you can say both parties are breaking international law; at worst you have to accept one side is the far bigger transgressor and is practising genocide. The Hamas charter is just a cheap fallback for a talking point by Israeli mouthpieces. While they may have been fervent in the past (the charter was drafted more than 20 years ago), they no longer are so: Aziz Dwaik, who is the most senior rep in the West Bank, has already said that Hamas has accepted Israel’s right to exist and would be prepared to nullify its charter. In any event, Israel has no reason to fear anyone in the Arab states; they are stronger militarily than the rest of the arab nations combined.
Whatever games you want to play with this discussion; right now it is the Israelis that are stopping this tragedy from ending. The Palestinians know they will never have the might to challenge Israel, all they want is their homes now. But even then, just watch the Israelis stoke the flames by being unreasonable with regards to boundaries and settlements, etc, as they have been many times before. This game is old. The international community has been condemning Israel for a long time now, the Americans should (and are becoming more inclined to) do the same.
At best, you can say both parties are breaking international law; at worst you have to accept one side is the far bigger transgressor and is practising genocide. The Hamas charter is just a cheap fallback for a talking point by Israeli mouthpieces. While they may have been fervent in the past (the charter was drafted more than 20 years ago), they no longer are so: Aziz Dwaik, who is the most senior rep in the West Bank, has already said that Hamas has accepted Israel’s right to exist and would be prepared to nullify its charter. In any event, Israel has no reason to fear anyone in the Arab states; they are stronger militarily than the rest of the arab nations combined.
Whatever games you want to play with this discussion; right now it is the Israelis that are stopping this tragedy from ending. The Palestinians know they will never have the might to challenge Israel, all they want is their homes now. But even then, just watch the Israelis stoke the flames by being unreasonable with regards to boundaries and settlements, etc, as they have been many times before. This game is old. The international community has been condemning Israel for a long time now, the Americans should (and are becoming more inclined to) do the same.
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