UN backs no-fly zone over Libya

[Niloufar]

I don't get it. Many of the same people who are celebrating burning Gaddafi tanks and bombing of his military bases are the same who say "bayad khodemoon bekonim" when it comes to defenseless Iranian people. How about a few Tomahawks fired at Lavizan and a no fly zone for Ahmadinejad? Are the rules different now that someone else is pulling the trigger?

when Gaddafi tanks and military committed a genocide against his own ppl(just like IR), Its hard to feel sympathy towards their brutal officials and military, burned or not.

and who are we kidding? Libya and Iran's case is very similar, except that IR 10x smarter to not make the same mistake Gaddafi did. they dont let any foreign correspondent, media coverage for their brutalities against our ppl, so Iran's case never gets the same attention-coverage as Libya's did.
+

Even if we assume Foreigners take the same action in Iran, it'd be a huge mistake in Iran's case, bc IR is smarter than Gaddafi. IR Sepah dont have specific military compound, they have bases in public schools, basements of residential areas,etc.
Our own collective actions can paralyze them..thats the best way serving our best interest. and unfortunately for that our ppl need to get armed against Sepah.

Eitherway, Intelligence services worldwide should be more capable to spot and assassinate dictators internally, without taking military action. but somehow, this route is never preferred in global politics.

 

[General Parsaian]

and who are we kidding? Libya and Iran's case is very similar, except that IR 10x smarter to not make the same mistake Gaddafi did. they dont let any foreign correspondent, media coverage for their brutalities against our ppl, so Iran's case never gets the same attention-coverage as Libya's did.
+

Even if we assume Foreigners take the same action in Iran, it'd be a huge mistake in Iran's case, bc IR is smarter than Gaddafi. IR Sepah dont have specific military compound, they have bases in public schools, basements of residential areas,etc.
Our own collective actions can paralyze them..thats the best way serving our best interest. and unfortunately for that our ppl need to get armed against Sepah.

Eitherway, Intelligence services worldwide should be more capable to spot and assassinate dictators internally, without taking military action. but somehow, this route is never preferred in global politics.

دوست عزیز
من فکر نکنم فرقی داشته باشد یا اینکه رژیم ایران زیرک تر از قذافی باشد یا نباش
فرق در این است که در لیبی تظاهر کنندگان توانستند به پادگانها در بنغازی حمله کنند و مسلح شوند
اگر در ایران هم هزاران نفر مسلح می شدند
رژیم همین کاری را می کرد که قذافی کرد
برفرض شیراز به دست دها هزار تظاهر کنند مسلح بیافتد
شما فکر می کنید رژیم چاره ای بجز ان دارد که به شیراز لشکر کشی کند ؟
اگر چنین اتفاقی بیافتد انوقت خواهید دید که درست مثل قذافی عمل خواهند کرد

 

[Niloufar]

دوست عزیز
من فکر نکنم فرقی داشته باشد یا اینکه رژیم ایران زیرک تر از قذافی باشد یا نباش
فرق در این است که در لیبی تظاهر کنندگان توانستند به پادگانها در بنغازی حمله کنند و مسلح شوند
اگر در ایران هم هزاران نفر مسلح می شدند
رژیم همین کاری را می کرد که قذافی کرد
برفرض شیراز به دست دها هزار تظاهر کنند مسلح بیافتد
شما فکر می کنید رژیم چاره ای بجز ان دارد که به شیراز لشکر کشی کند ؟
اگر چنین اتفاقی بیافتد انوقت خواهید دید که درست مثل قذافی عمل خواهند کرد

Actually it matters a lot, but similar situation happened last year in Iran, but no country cried a river for our ppl. bc IR is smart and committed their genocide off-camera, behind bars and in notorious detention centres even against peaceful protesters. they just didnt use airstrikes..

IR has already committed the crimes Gaddafi committed this month. We have one of the highest capital punishment rates in the world, highest detention rates, worst torture cases, yet Iran's case isnt getting media attention, bc IR doesnt bow down to 1-2 ally only and they know how to cover-up!

Im just saying peaceful protests in cases of Iran and Libya just doesnt work.so if we want to keep our protests internal, our ppl getting armed would be a better way.

 

[General Parsaian]

Actually it matters a lot, but similar situation happened last year in Iran, but no country cried a river for our ppl. bc IR is smart and committed their genocide off-camera, behind bars and in notorious detention centres even against peaceful protesters. they just didnt use airstrikes..

IR has already committed the crimes Gaddafi committed this month. We have one of the highest capital punishment rates in the world, highest detention rates, worst torture cases, yet Iran's case isnt getting media attention, bc IR doesnt bow down to 1-2 ally only and they know how to cover-up!

Im just saying peaceful protests in cases of Iran and Libya just doesnt work.so if we want to keep our protests internal, our ppl getting armed would be a better way.

نیلو جان
امریکا و غرب اگر می دانستند که جنبش می تواند رژیم را مثل رژیم قذافی تضعیف کنند این کار را می کردند
همچنین تظاهرات در ایران با لیبی بسیار فرق می کرد
در ایران جنگ داخلی نشد
در لیبی قذافی با هواپیماهای جنگی و هلیکوپتر و توپ و تانک به شهرهایی که تظاهر کرده بودند حمله ور شد
در ایران چنین اتفاقی نیافتاد
یعنی اگر در ایران هم چنین اتفاقاتی می افتاد غرب وارد عمل می شد
هر چند که شاید برای امریکا و غرب نبرد با رژیم ایران بسیار سخت تر از حمله به ارتش پوشالی قذافی است
و امریکا و غرب را به دردسر بزرگی می اندازد
ولی باز فکر میکنم امریکا به کمک تظاهر کنندگان می امد

 

[IEI]

Libya population is 6 million, not comparable with Iran ...

 

[arash_kaman]

11:27pm


Gaddafi's offer on a ceasefire isn't enough to deter Britain from enforcing the no-fly zone, a spokesman for Prime Minister David Cameron says:

 

[arash_kaman]

11:41 pm Robert Gates adds that splitting Libya in two "would be a formula for instability".


11:40 pm Robert Gates, US defence secretary, says President Obama's advisers unanimously supported his approach in Libya.

 

[arash_kaman]

11:47pm Egypt has decided to steer clear of joining the military action against Libya, fearing reprisals against hundreds of thousands of its citizens living and working there.

 

[Flint]

Nilou, you are sidestepping the question. Whether IR is smart or not is not the question. The question is why are you celebrating bombing of Libya and yet condemning bombing of Sepah facilities? Doesn't matter how many of them there are. That is somebody else's problem. There are enough air resources to take care of them all if the time comes. You are cheering for the attack on Libya but say we have to do it ourselves when it comes to Iran?

 

[Motori]

Nilou jAn,
Let’s look at this whole thing with different perspective before we rationalize.

1-Libyans fighting against Quacky are not peaceful civilian protesters any more. Even with Geneva Convention standards they lost that status as soon as they ransacked military bases, gun caches and ammo depots and started armed confrontation against central Gov. and now they are considered as ununiformed armed combatants that give legitimate and legal right to qaddafy to strike back. The rebels are a small army on their own with fighter planes, tanks, artillery, AAA and various other military toys. Also I won’t be surprised knowing that their needs are being taken care of through Egypt and possibly Chad.

2-Just take a look at the magnitude this armada assembled in southern Mediterranean. There are 3 Carrier battle groups, multitude of Destroyers, missile launcher warships, around 400 G4 and G5 fighter jets with B2 stealth bombers flying from inland USA, with Canadian Air Force assets on the way to join the battle. No nation can mobilize such a massive expeditionary force in a week or 2, depending on the distance from base such a power projection always requires over a month to mobilize and start moving. This timeframe indicates that these fighting forces have been involved with preparation ever since the first day when civilian uprising against Qyacky started.
Aren’t you surprised to see that UNSC 1973 passed on March 17 (effectively partitioned Libya to East and West) and Tomahawks and Storm Shadows are already flying on March 19?

3-What is the objective here? Res. 1973 makes it illegal to target Quackty or any of his family members, civilian buildings are off limit and coalition forces (technically) are prohibited from landing forces on the ground. Then what? I guess one scenario is that rebels in east will get mobilized and move twd west, enter Tripoli and topple Quacky. Libya is a tribal country if we assume Quack gets captured and hanged what will prevent victorious rebels from slaughtering his clan?

4-For me it is the intention that counts. I need to think more about Cameron but I can wager a guess about Obama and Sarkozy. Obama has been long criticized on leadership, that he is not a man with a world leadership caliber. This will be game changer for him, also if Kosovo nailed the second term for Clinton why wouldn’t Libya do the same for him?
French Rafales started bombarding ground targets west of Benghazi and around Misratah before Libyan air defense system has been taken out. This was intentional; France wants to show off their radar jamming capabilities to boost the sale. Rafale has been a slow selling fighter jet always inferior to mighty battle tested F-16 block 50+. Now beside some airshow DVD and few manufacturer numbers, France can present battle tested numbers to prospect buyers. Also Sarkozy was caught knapping during Tunisia uprising, this will be an easy win for him to show what kind of a “Man” he is. “Hey look I’m not Jacque Chirac, I’m better”.

 

[Motori]

Rasoul khaan where are you getting your info about the civilian casualties and injuries? I mean, the majority of the targets have been military compounds right?

CNN, BBC and some other sources. Video should be in CNN website by now.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/304872

Although against UNSC Res. 1973 coalition forces have plans and are determined to take Quacky out. Storm Shadow missile air launched by British forces has a building located about 50 meters from Qaddafi's compound which has caused heavy civilian casualties. Taking Quacky out is the easiest and fastest way for preventing a prolonged war.

 

[Flint]

Motori jan, brilliant points; especially #1 and #4.

 

[BehzadB]

I don't see an end game to this if they don't take Ghadafi out.. how long are they going keep bombing Radar sites and air defense sites? then what? the revolutionaries have picked up arms, so it's not a peaceful revolution anymore and they don't have the power to oust the idiot out.. this can drag on for years and years unless they take out the big donkey..

 

[arash_kaman]

Let’s look at this whole thing with different perspective before we rationalize.

1-Libyans fighting against Quacky are not peaceful civilian protesters any more. Even with Geneva Convention standards they lost that status as soon as they ransacked military bases, gun caches and ammo depots and started armed confrontation against central Gov.

Dooste aziz, would you still say the same if Iranians ransacked sepah bases and basij bases and started attacking state security forces ?

 

[DireStraits]

Dooste aziz, would you still say the same if Iranians ransacked sepah bases and basij bases and started attacking state security forces ?

I can't imagine they will remember Cheneva conventions.

 

[Flint]

Dooste aziz, would you still say the same if Iranians ransacked sepah bases and basij bases and started attacking state security forces ?

History has shown that the people who grab power with guns will not leave peacefully. I don't care if you call them greens or reds.

 

[DireStraits]

History has shown that the people who grab power with guns will not leave peacefully. I don't care if you call them greens or reds.

When in our history have people grab the power without gun?

 

[Flint]

When in our history have people grab the power without gun?

That is the problem, isn't it?

 

[Motori]

Dooste aziz, would you still say the same if Iranians ransacked sepah bases and basij bases and started attacking state security forces ?

Yes.

 

[Motori]

When in our history have people grab the power without gun?

Chile, Argentina, Portugal, Poland, India, S. Africa, Russia, Czechoslovakia, Latvia, Lithuania, Philippines....

Now you show me one single violent revolution in our recent history which worse dictatorship did not emerge out of than the one people were fighting to irradicate it at the first place.