What is going on in Turkey?!

[shahinc]

Shahin jaan, I'm not failing to recognize the difficulty of that process at all - it is going to be a very tedious and nearly impossible task for sure.

I think the KEY point in your argument should be a impossible task. It would next to impossible to have Islamic representatives who will accept individual rights and freedom of speech and ... because the core of their believes, the political Islam, does not believe in such concepts.

However, my argument is that it's MUCH easier to ban Islamist ideologies during the drafting of the constitution which may take a few months, than it is to ban Islamic parties not only from the drafting of the constitution, but also from the entire political process for decades and centuries to come.

I agree with this part if the first part was not impossible.

I am repeating myself now but it is next to impossible to ban Islamic ideaologies in a perdominately muslim country in which Akhoond and Masjed has a substantial influence and power from the constitution.

I would personally have no problem with having Islamic representation in the committee or group that would draft the constitution, much like I would not have a problem with having any minority ethnic, religious and special interest groups represented. At the end of the end of the day the constitution has to be representative, but all these groups have to recognize that they will not have rights or special privileges that go above and beyond any other groups - that's the non-negotiable condition to participate. Once that condition is understood, it becomes impossible for any one group to exert its will over other groups and the constitution will automatically become a secular one.

All I can say is that good luck with that. I don't think the current political, militant version of Islam can understand the concepts of no privilege and ...

 

[Bi-honar]

I think the KEY point in your argument should be a impossible task. It would next to impossible to have Islamic representatives who will accept individual rights and freedom of speech and ... because the core of their believes, the political Islam, does not believe in such concepts.

I agree with this part if the first part was not impossible.

I am repeating myself now but it is next to impossible to ban Islamic ideaologies in a perdominately muslim country in which Akhoond and Masjed has a substantial influence and power from the constitution.

All I can say is that good luck with that. I don't think the current political, militant version of Islam can understand the concepts of no privilege and ...

Shahin jaan, the assumption in Deerouz's post was that the country is able to put a secular constitution together and that Islamist parties be banned altogether from the remainder of the political process in a secular democracy. My response was based on that assumption - whether that's a possibility or not, is the topic of another discussion.

Having said that, and so that you don't think I'm avoiding to answer your post, I think you're thinking about extremist Islamists. The types of people who would have a place in any potential committee charged with drafting the constitution would be people like Mousavi. Again, this is based on the assumption that the conditions are there for the seculars to sit at the negotiating table with a position of power in the first place and as such, anyone who can't handle freedom and equality for all can choose to leave! If those conditions aren't there, then you won't be able to enact a secular constitution to begin with and this whole argument of banning them post-facto is meaningless.

 

[byebyenow]

[video=youtube;HYjVmUu4o64]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HYjVmUu4o64[/video]

 

[shahinc]

Shahin jaan, the assumption in Deerouz's post was that the country is able to put a secular constitution together and that Islamist parties be banned altogether from the remainder of the political process in a secular democracy. My response was based on that assumption - whether that's a possibility or not, is the topic of another discussion.
.

Fair Enough. It maybe the topic for another thread but that is the most fundamental question to answer ... How to reach that secular constitution in a Islamic country ...

Having said that, and so that you don't think I'm avoiding to answer your post, I think you're thinking about extremist Islamists. The types of people who would have a place in any potential committee charged with drafting the constitution would be people like Mousavi.

]Bi-honar Aziz, People like Mousavi were and are the same people who were kissing the hand of Khomeyni and their slogans are going back to the GOLDEN DAYS OF KHOMEYNI !!! Do you really think with the presence of a dynamic , Powerful Islamic figure on their side , just like the beginning of the revolution, they will take any step that will jepoerdize the supriority of Islam and Islamic believers.

History is there for all of to read and see how the " MELI MAZHABI" , the so called moderate muslims acted when push come to shove and what was the result.

Again, this is based on the assumption that the conditions are there for the seculars to sit at the negotiating table with a position of power in the first place and as such, anyone who can't handle freedom and equality for all can choose to leave! If those conditions aren't there, then you won't be able to enact a secular constitution to begin with and this whole argument of banning them post-facto is meaningless.

As I said that is a huge assumption. Maybe I should open another thread on this topic but I am curious on how people think that is even possible. For me there are 2 ways:

1) Forceful push of the Islamist out of picture
2) Moderate muslims standing up and pushing the extremist to the side. Unfortunately the second one seems to have become a dream since most moderate muslims are nothing but apologist for extremist these days and are more interested on pointing fingers to the shortcoming of democratic countries in west than addressing the infestation of filth in their religion and and their countries.

 

[Bi-honar]

Fair Enough. It maybe the topic for another thread but that is the most fundamental question to answer ... How to reach that secular constitution in a Islamic country ....

It is for sure Shahin jaan and the answer remains to be seen. Whether it's possible to do it without the use of force and guns (at least at the stage of drafting the constitution), my eyes don't take any water!

Bi-honar Aziz, People like Mousavi were and are the same people who were kissing the hand of Khomeyni and their slogans are going back to the GOLDEN DAYS OF KHOMEYNI !!! Do you really think with the presence of a dynamic , Powerful Islamic figure on their side , just like the beginning of the revolution, they will take any step that will jepoerdize the supriority of Islam and Islamic believers.
History is there for all of to read and see how the " MELI MAZHABI" , the so called moderate muslims acted when push come to shove and what was the result.

I think one thing you forget about Islamists, is that they're the most opportunistic and suck-up type of people there is on this planet at the moment. When the tables turn around, you'll see how these same people will be kissing someone else's hand. Not to mention that some of these guys genuinely thought there could be an Islamic state based on universal justice and equality and that crap, but they now see that no such thing is possible - and perhaps no more than people like Mousavi who got screwed over big time by the system they helped set up. The concept of VF will be like the story of loo loo khor khoreh 10 years from now and I promise you that no future political structure in Iran will allow one person have so much power. That was the beginning of all transitions from Monarchy or religious fascism to democracies in Europe.

As I said that is a huge assumption. Maybe I should open another thread on this topic but I am curious on how people think that is even possible. For me there are 2 ways:

1) Forceful push of the Islamist out of picture
2) Moderate muslims standing up and pushing the extremist to the side. Unfortunately the second one seems to have become a dream since most moderate muslims are nothing but apologist for extremist these days and are more interested on pointing fingers to the shortcoming of democratic countries in west than addressing the infestation of filth in their religion and and their countries.

1 - I absolutely agree with the forceful part, although I think they can be forced into submission (i.e. forced to play nice), rather than being pushed out of the picture (I think the latter is much harder to achieve).

2 - And I agree that the 2nd one seems harder than the 1st one at the moment. But you never know. A lot of these "moderate" muslims are completely disillusioned with this system and think that this system has actually damaged religion among the masses. Ultimately they may become less moderate in combating the 1st group (rather than the secular group), which is what happened in Europe and there have been instances of it happening in Iran (for example Montazeri and Taheri).

 

[OSTAD POOYA]

This is what they are trying to do. Protect what their father gave them unlike Iranians.

 

[Playboy]

the modern muhtesem yuzyil is being crowned in turkey.

 

[Zed e' Engelab]

 

[Zed e' Engelab]

 

[ChaharMahal]

قربونت, شما که بیداری بگو چه گلی زدی بسر ایران.

 

[Zed e' Engelab]

قربونت, شما که بیداری بگو چه گلی زدی بسر ایران.

همون گلی که شما زدی،

 

[shahinc]

قربونت, شما که بیداری بگو چه گلی زدی بسر ایران.

Ageh Gol nazadeh basheh, aghalan mesleh shoma NARIDEH be sar Iran ba Kenar omadan ba regime va be ghole khodet " Adapt" Kardan va cheshm bastan be Zolm va setam be hamvatanesh

 

[ChaharMahal]

Ageh Gol nazadeh basheh, aghalan mesleh shoma NARIDEH be sar Iran ba Kenar omadan ba regime va be ghole khodet " Adapt" Kardan va cheshm bastan be Zolm va setam be hamvatanesh

ممنون از حضرت عالی از پشت کامپیوتر با ظلم مبارزه کردید
و مرگ بر من مزدور که از پشت کامپیوتر ریدم به ایران.

 

[shahinc]

ممنون از حضرت عالی از پشت کامپیوتر با ظلم مبارزه کردید
و مرگ بر من مزدور که از پشت کامپیوتر ریدم به ایران.

Zeresshhhkkkkkkkkkkk
جناب در هر سفر به ایران و حمایت از رژیم ، ریدی به سر و کله ایران ، زیاد نقش خودت را کوچک نکن عزیزم . بنده هم هیچ زمانی ادعا نکردم که در حال مبارزه با ظلم در ایران هستم .ما را چه به این حرف ها . تا زمانی که خائنینی مانند شما هستن باید نشست یک گوشه و نگاه کرد به گه بازی حزب باد .

 

[ChaharMahal]

Zeresshhhkkkkkkkkkkk

Jenabali dar har safar be Iran va hemayat az regime, ridi be sar ba kaleh Iran, ziyad naghsheh khodeto kochik nakon Azizam.
خوب شد روشن شد که تو معتقدی که 70 میلیون نفر باید ایران را ول کنن بیا بیرون چون در ایران بودن به معنای
حمایت از رژیم هستش.
Bandeh ham hich vaght , edeaa nakardam ke ba Zolm dar Iran mijangam. Maro che be in harfa.
اگر مبارزه نمیکنی پس برای بقیه دائم تکلیف مشخص نکن
این و اون را خواب , خر , ... صدا نکن فقط بخاطره که جونشون براشون عزیزه
Ta Zamani ke khaenini mesleh Shoma hastan, bayad neshast yek goshe va negah kard be Goh bazi shoma ha

شاید تو ده شما خائن کسی هست که باهات مخالف.
ولی تو ده ما خائن کسیست اصرار مملکت را بفروشه , در زمان جنگ به دشمن مملکت کمک کنه . جاسوسی برای دشمن کشور , ....
و تو ده ما خیانت را در یک دادگاه صالح تعیین میشه.

امیدوارم عقاید شما مثل انتخاب واژه هاتون تهی از برهان نباشه.

 

[shahinc]

شاید تو ده شما خائن کسی هست که باهات مخالف.
ولی تو ده ما خائن کسیست اصرار مملکت را بفروشه , در زمان جنگ به دشمن مملکت کمک کنه . جاسوسی برای دشمن کشور , ....
و تو ده ما خیانت را در یک دادگاه صالح تعیین میشه.

امیدوارم عقاید شما مثل انتخاب واژه هاتون تهی از برهان نباشه.

تو ده ما خائن کسی است که پشت میکنه به ظلم و ساکت میمونه در برابر شکنجه و حمله به بیگناها . خائن کسی است که کمک میکنه به بقا یک حکومت استبدادی و جلوی کسان دیگری که قدمی میخواهند بر دارند وایمیسته و مسخره میکنه و سنگ می اندازد . شناخت خائن احتیاجی به دادگاه نداره ، درسته که خائن با رنگ و رو و مدل های مختلف میاد ولی با بو تعفن که داره از راه دور قابل تشخیص است.​

 

[ChaharMahal]

تو ده ما خائن کسی است که پشت میکنه به ظلم و ساکت میمونه در برابر شکنجه و حمله به بیگناها . خائن کسی است که کمک میکنه به بقا یک حکومت استبدادی و جلوی کسان دیگری که قدمی میخواهند بر دارند وایمیسته و مسخره میکنه و سنگ می اندازد . شناخت خائن احتیاجی به دادگاه نداره ، درسته که خائن با رنگ و رو و مدل های مختلف میاد ولی با بو تعفون که داره از راه در قابل تشخیص است.​

مسخره کردن جزو همون آزادی بیان که میگی نیست؟
ساکت بودن آزادی بیان نیست؟
بحث و نقد جزوی از آزادی بیان نیست؟

اگر خدایی هست , خدا را شکر شما هنوز مریدی ندارید.
که اگر داشتید به طور حتم در صورت رسیدن به قدرت مثل برادران آخوند
خیلی ها را به کشتن میدادی.

کسی که تحمل عقیده مخالف در فضای مجازی رو نداره
وای بر روزی که اون شخص در کوچکترین موقعیت قدرت قرار بگیره

 

[Bi-honar]

Turkey: Football Fans Call For PM To Resign

 

[ChaharMahal]

if the members of their party care about the party's future they should ask to gracefully exit in the year or so. ten years is enough for anybody

at the very least Abdullah Gul should challenge him for presidency.

 

[Ardesheer]

قربونت, شما که بیداری بگو چه گلی زدی بسر ایران.

Ageh kasi narineh, ma khosh-haleem. Kesi nabayad goli bezaneh. Moshgeleh maa ineh keh ridan az saleh 57 shoroo shod.