Hahahaha!! That was a good one :dance3:
bebin pedar jan, there is nothing wrong with admitting that you made a mistake or you didn't know something. I suggest you do just that because the more you continue insisting on what you said above the more ridiculous you look
eep:
Akheh janam gooz be shaghigheh cheh rabti dareh?!! You said Arabs moved to Israel to have better life, now you bring me a wiki link that Israel has Arab population!! So what?
I know that there are Arab Israelis, I didn't argue with that. I took issue with your claim that those Arabs (the majority of which, but not all, are muslim) moved from elsewhere to Israel because they could have a better life in Israel. My point was that you can't immigrate to Israel unless you're Jewish. You cannot acquire Israeli citizenship unless you're born to Israeli parents (who could be non-Jewish) or you're Jewish.
As for the discrimination part, again, you really don't have that level of discrimination in any modern democracy in the world. Discrimination of the type that you see in Europe or North America is more social or hidden in the subtleties of the law, the latter can often be challenged through the legal system. The type of discrimination Arab Israelis experience is, on the other hand, sanctioned by Israeli constitution. There is a big difference between the two that even you should be able to understand :bye:
bebin pedar jan, there is nothing wrong with admitting that you made a mistake or you didn't know something. I suggest you do just that because the more you continue insisting on what you said above the more ridiculous you look
eep:Akheh janam gooz be shaghigheh cheh rabti dareh?!! You said Arabs moved to Israel to have better life, now you bring me a wiki link that Israel has Arab population!! So what?
I know that there are Arab Israelis, I didn't argue with that. I took issue with your claim that those Arabs (the majority of which, but not all, are muslim) moved from elsewhere to Israel because they could have a better life in Israel. My point was that you can't immigrate to Israel unless you're Jewish. You cannot acquire Israeli citizenship unless you're born to Israeli parents (who could be non-Jewish) or you're Jewish.
As for the discrimination part, again, you really don't have that level of discrimination in any modern democracy in the world. Discrimination of the type that you see in Europe or North America is more social or hidden in the subtleties of the law, the latter can often be challenged through the legal system. The type of discrimination Arab Israelis experience is, on the other hand, sanctioned by Israeli constitution. There is a big difference between the two that even you should be able to understand :bye:
Yeah, ethnic cleaning. 25% of their own population are moslem arabs and they are dong ethnic cleaning on daily basis.
Kaf bezanid vaase ishoon
Kaf bezanid vaase ishoon
This has happened before, and I am sure you remember...This time i let it go. But don't expect to not say anything next time.
Now, I do not think that ethnic cleansing has anything to do with the percentage of a certain group that is being wiped off. There are many examples of it as well.
That's correct. The Arab population of Israel lived there at the time of the British mandate, before the creation of Israel. After the country was created, those remained were granted citizenship by residence.
However according to the following links a non-jewish person cannot move to Israel and become a citizen. That right is reserved for Jews (Law of return). The only exception is if a non-Jew marries an Israeli citizen; but even in that case the right is not granted if the person is a Palestinian living in west bank or Gaza.
[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_citizenship[/ame]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel#Citizenship_and_Entry_Law
However according to the following links a non-jewish person cannot move to Israel and become a citizen. That right is reserved for Jews (Law of return). The only exception is if a non-Jew marries an Israeli citizen; but even in that case the right is not granted if the person is a Palestinian living in west bank or Gaza.
[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_citizenship[/ame]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel#Citizenship_and_Entry_Law
I answered No.
But there is a third answer.
Had this been on Israeli waters and with all precautions to avoid any causalities I would have said yes. The enemy of enemy of enemy is not your enemy, for Ahura's sake! Some of you forget how outrageous IRI claims were against Green Movement folks who took the batons from police and used against them or used concrete pieces to ward off police aggression. I am not saying make up your mind now. But be weary of IDF claims as much as you were about IRI propaganda!
I do not even want to enter the debate of how Israeli establishment, by constitution, is against human rights and apartheid in nature. Even if we give rights to Israelis constition, this action was dead wrong, knowing two very facts:
1- The peace activists, even if as aggressive as IDF claims, were not terrorists and should have been treated the same as any protesters, e.g. green peace movement.
2- The ship had not entered Israeli waters so this was an act of piracy
But there is a third answer.
Had this been on Israeli waters and with all precautions to avoid any causalities I would have said yes. The enemy of enemy of enemy is not your enemy, for Ahura's sake! Some of you forget how outrageous IRI claims were against Green Movement folks who took the batons from police and used against them or used concrete pieces to ward off police aggression. I am not saying make up your mind now. But be weary of IDF claims as much as you were about IRI propaganda!
I do not even want to enter the debate of how Israeli establishment, by constitution, is against human rights and apartheid in nature. Even if we give rights to Israelis constition, this action was dead wrong, knowing two very facts:
1- The peace activists, even if as aggressive as IDF claims, were not terrorists and should have been treated the same as any protesters, e.g. green peace movement.
2- The ship had not entered Israeli waters so this was an act of piracy
Hahahaha!! That was a good one :dance3:
bebin pedar jan, there is nothing wrong with admitting that you made a mistake or you didn't know something. I suggest you do just that because the more you continue insisting on what you said above the more ridiculous you lookeep:
Akheh janam gooz be shaghigheh cheh rabti dareh?!! You said Arabs moved to Israel to have better life, now you bring me a wiki link that Israel has Arab population!! So what?
I know that there are Arab Israelis, I didn't argue with that. I took issue with your claim that those Arabs (the majority of which, but not all, are muslim) moved from elsewhere to Israel because they could have a better life in Israel. My point was that you can't immigrate to Israel unless you're Jewish. You cannot acquire Israeli citizenship unless you're born to Israeli parents (who could be non-Jewish) or you're Jewish.
As for the discrimination part, again, you really don't have that level of discrimination in any modern democracy in the world. Discrimination of the type that you see in Europe or North America is more social or hidden in the subtleties of the law, the latter can often be challenged through the legal system. The type of discrimination Arab Israelis experience is, on the other hand, sanctioned by Israeli constitution. There is a big difference between the two that even you should be able to understand :bye:
bebin pedar jan, there is nothing wrong with admitting that you made a mistake or you didn't know something. I suggest you do just that because the more you continue insisting on what you said above the more ridiculous you look
eep:Akheh janam gooz be shaghigheh cheh rabti dareh?!! You said Arabs moved to Israel to have better life, now you bring me a wiki link that Israel has Arab population!! So what?
I know that there are Arab Israelis, I didn't argue with that. I took issue with your claim that those Arabs (the majority of which, but not all, are muslim) moved from elsewhere to Israel because they could have a better life in Israel. My point was that you can't immigrate to Israel unless you're Jewish. You cannot acquire Israeli citizenship unless you're born to Israeli parents (who could be non-Jewish) or you're Jewish.
As for the discrimination part, again, you really don't have that level of discrimination in any modern democracy in the world. Discrimination of the type that you see in Europe or North America is more social or hidden in the subtleties of the law, the latter can often be challenged through the legal system. The type of discrimination Arab Israelis experience is, on the other hand, sanctioned by Israeli constitution. There is a big difference between the two that even you should be able to understand :bye:
eep:I said alot of Arabs came to israel to have a better life. Thats true.
You said no one can get the israeli citizenship without being of jewish background and i tell you you are talking nonsense. You can get the Israeli citizenship via the right of birth, residence or naturalization. That means you dont have to be a jew to become Israeli. Just like anywhere else in the world, you can apply for the israeli citizenship. You only have to be residing in that country for a certain number of years and you will have to have a right to reside in Israel on a permanent basis. What does it mean? Right, that means Arabs and Moslems can apply for the israeli citizenship and alot of them get it as they are trying to atleast not be harsh to those arabs who are willing to part of the israeli system.
Btw, just to inform you a little bit, in Knesset, 12 of the 120 sits belong to israeli arabs.
How about informing yourself before you enter a discussion ha?
eep:
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No thats not right. Read the links carefully. You can become israeli by naturalization, by the right of birth or by the right of residence. Just like Europe and America.
[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_nationality_law[/ame]
Naturalization
Adults may acquire Israeli citizenship through naturalization. To be eligible for naturalization, a person must have resided in Israel for three years out of the previous five years. In addition, the applicant must have a right to reside in Israel on a permanent basis. All naturalization requests are, however, at the discretion of the Minister of the Interior.
[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_nationality_law[/ame]
Naturalization
Adults may acquire Israeli citizenship through naturalization. To be eligible for naturalization, a person must have resided in Israel for three years out of the previous five years. In addition, the applicant must have a right to reside in Israel on a permanent basis. All naturalization requests are, however, at the discretion of the Minister of the Interior.
From CNN:
"Also Tuesday, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak approved the opening of the Rafah crossing between Gaza and Egypt for humanitarian purposes, state-owned television reported.
The border crossing linking Egypt to Gaza will be kept open for only a few days, Palestinian officials said."
Does anyone here know why is this crossing closed and who is in charge of this crossing ?
"Also Tuesday, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak approved the opening of the Rafah crossing between Gaza and Egypt for humanitarian purposes, state-owned television reported.
The border crossing linking Egypt to Gaza will be kept open for only a few days, Palestinian officials said."
Does anyone here know why is this crossing closed and who is in charge of this crossing ?
Eaaaasy son, eaasy eep:
I said alot of Arabs came to israel to have a better life. Thats true.
You said no one can get the israeli citizenship without being of jewish background and i tell you you are talking nonsense. You can get the Israeli citizenship via the right of birth, residence or naturalization. That means you dont have to be a jew to become Israeli. Just like anywhere else in the world, you can apply for the israeli citizenship. You only have to be residing in that country for 3 to 5 years and you will have to have a right to reside in Israel on a permanent basis. What does it mean? Right, that means Arabs and Moslems can apply for the israeli citizenship and alot of them get it as they are trying to atleast not be harsh to those arabs who are willing to part of the israeli system.
Btw, just to inform you a little bit, in Knesset, 12 of the 120 sits belong to israeli arabs.
How about informing yourself before you enter a discussion ha?eep:
eep:I said alot of Arabs came to israel to have a better life. Thats true.
You said no one can get the israeli citizenship without being of jewish background and i tell you you are talking nonsense. You can get the Israeli citizenship via the right of birth, residence or naturalization. That means you dont have to be a jew to become Israeli. Just like anywhere else in the world, you can apply for the israeli citizenship. You only have to be residing in that country for 3 to 5 years and you will have to have a right to reside in Israel on a permanent basis. What does it mean? Right, that means Arabs and Moslems can apply for the israeli citizenship and alot of them get it as they are trying to atleast not be harsh to those arabs who are willing to part of the israeli system.
Btw, just to inform you a little bit, in Knesset, 12 of the 120 sits belong to israeli arabs.
How about informing yourself before you enter a discussion ha?
eep:
I never said only Jews can have Israeli citizenship, I said only Jews can immigrate to Israel (and deerouz correctly expanded that to include those non-palestinians who marry an Israeli). A Jewish person can simply immigrate to Israel. A non-Jewish person cannot immigrate to Israel. So it's not possible for "a lot of Arabs to come to Israel to have a better life"!!
How about informing yourself before you enter a discussion ha? eep:
eep:
Law of return for Jews:
[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return[/ame]
For non Jews:
http://www.globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/173/30408.html
"Non-Jews are subject to more restrictive immigration laws. In the past, Israel allowed "family unification," in which Palestinians who married Israelis could become Israeli citizens. (Almost all such marriages are between Palestinians and Israeli Arabs.) According to official statistics, 55,000 such requests have been accepted since 1968. Compounded with natural growth, these naturalized citizens enlarged the Israeli Arab population by 137,000 -- one-tenth of its current strength.
In 2003, at the height of the intifada, Sharon's government decided to halt the process through a temporary legislation, which it justified by security concerns. "
[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return[/ame]
For non Jews:
http://www.globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/173/30408.html
"Non-Jews are subject to more restrictive immigration laws. In the past, Israel allowed "family unification," in which Palestinians who married Israelis could become Israeli citizens. (Almost all such marriages are between Palestinians and Israeli Arabs.) According to official statistics, 55,000 such requests have been accepted since 1968. Compounded with natural growth, these naturalized citizens enlarged the Israeli Arab population by 137,000 -- one-tenth of its current strength.
In 2003, at the height of the intifada, Sharon's government decided to halt the process through a temporary legislation, which it justified by security concerns. "
Khodam jaan, Pessar jaan, to ahle in bahsaa nisit. Hichvaght naboodi, be ghado heykalet nemikhore. shabet khosh eep:
eep:
From your link:
Residence
Citizenship by residence was intended for non-Jewish denizens of the British Mandate of Palestine (Arabs, Druze, Bedouins, etc.) who were considered to be associated with Palestine during the period immediately prior to the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. Such denizens who were still within the territorial confines of Israel after the war were granted full Israeli citizenship. In order to determine who was eligible for citizenship under this provision, the state of Israel conducted a population registration in 1952 and again in the 1980s. Those found to meet the requirements obtained Israeli citizenship. For purposes regarding modern Israeli citizenship, this section is usually irrelevant.
So, in general, a non-Jewish person cannot immigrate to Israel.
Repeat that to yourself for 100 times before you go to sleep tonight!!
This is a joint effort but I am not sure if Israel have soldiers on the ground. It is more from the air or something, unless I am mistaken. However, without Egyptian cooperation it is impossible to control the influx of goods from Egypt to Gaza. Even with help of Egyptians the goods still cross the border but in a minimal amount.
By the way Wikipedia is the most reliable source of information, in my opinion. There are a lot of people from each side able to edit it and also many neutral admins are at work whereas government funded information system has been always one sided, based on bias of people involved or the funds. But Wikipedia has been a revolutionary source, believe me. It might not be of our liking sometimes because we too have been educated in most biased systems either way.
By the way Wikipedia is the most reliable source of information, in my opinion. There are a lot of people from each side able to edit it and also many neutral admins are at work whereas government funded information system has been always one sided, based on bias of people involved or the funds. But Wikipedia has been a revolutionary source, believe me. It might not be of our liking sometimes because we too have been educated in most biased systems either way.
Daaram mishmoram bebinam che modat tool mikeshe taa befahmi yaa ghabool koni ke daari az hamoon aval harfe birabt mizani.
Cheshaato vaa kon dorost bekhoon. Oon ghesmati ro bekhoon ke bedarde in bahs mikhore. Midoonam vaasat sakhte, oomadi baa oon hame ghompoz vaarede bahs shodi haalaa na raah pas daari na raah pish vali khob zendegiye dige. Kaarish nemishe kard pessar jaan, bade ye modat yaad migiri moghei haarto poort koni ke harfe mofidi ham vaase goftan daashte baashieep:
Naturalization
Adults may acquire Israeli citizenship through naturalization. To be eligible for naturalization, a person must have resided in Israel for three years out of the previous five years. In addition, the applicant must have a right to reside in Israel on a permanent basis. All naturalization requests are, however, at the discretion of the Minister of the Interior.
[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_nationality_law[/ame]
Cheshaato vaa kon dorost bekhoon. Oon ghesmati ro bekhoon ke bedarde in bahs mikhore. Midoonam vaasat sakhte, oomadi baa oon hame ghompoz vaarede bahs shodi haalaa na raah pas daari na raah pish vali khob zendegiye dige. Kaarish nemishe kard pessar jaan, bade ye modat yaad migiri moghei haarto poort koni ke harfe mofidi ham vaase goftan daashte baashi
eep:Naturalization
Adults may acquire Israeli citizenship through naturalization. To be eligible for naturalization, a person must have resided in Israel for three years out of the previous five years. In addition, the applicant must have a right to reside in Israel on a permanent basis. All naturalization requests are, however, at the discretion of the Minister of the Interior.
[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_nationality_law[/ame]